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Growing Lean
Mastering the Game of Sales: A Conversation with Doug Dvorak on AI, Business Evolution, and Overcoming Adversity
As the conversation progresses, we transition into the realm of artificial intelligence and data communication, unveiling their potential in reshaping the sales industry. Doug has not only navigated but leveraged these advancements in his business, leading to improved efficiency and cost reduction. He shares his secret sauce - a mix of content marketing, chat gbt, and other innovative tools. He also dives into the significance of digital marketing platforms in measuring success and keeping abreast with sales enablement technologies. The need to adapt to the shift to remote work, the power of collaborations, and the role of mentorships in shaping businesses - Doug’s insights offer a treasure trove of information for anyone in sales, entrepreneurship, or for those seeking to adapt to the ever-evolving technological landscape. Don't miss out on a chance to learn from the master himself!
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Welcome back to the growing lean podcast sponsored by lean discovery group. This is your host, dylan Burke, also known as Deej. I'm happy to be here with Doug Dvorak, ceo and motivational speaker at Dvorak marketing group and founder and managing principal at the sales coaching institute. Welcome, doug.
Speaker 2:Hi Deej, how are you? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm great Thanks for being here, my pleasure. So, to get us started, can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you ended up doing what you do today?
Speaker 2:Sure, thank you. I always knew I wanted to be in professional selling and actually I designed my own major at university called sales administration. That included a lot of psychology, sociology, some acting and communication and that really served me well. I went to Flagler College in St Augustine, florida. So from a very early age I always knew I wanted to get into sales. My dad was a very successful sales person and I traveled with him when I was a young kid to many of his trade shows and appointments. I was an only child so that was really near and dear to my heart. But I knew from an early age I wanted to get into sales. I was just fascinated by the opportunity to really work for myself albeit working for a company and build and hone my business and selling skills and so started back in 1985 as the sole sales professional for a family-owned consultancy we did herbicide pesticide sanitation consulting in Chicago called WB La Cloud and Company. I was the only sales rep and I was hired by the president. They didn't really have a lot of success with prior salespeople so he was looking for a strong salesperson that could anchor produce for a couple of years and then be promoted to sales rep. So when I was given my sales quota. His name was Phil McLeod. I said, phil, if I double my sales quota in one year, will you lease me a BMW 325i for four years? He said, sure, didn't think I was able to accomplish that. Fast forward. A year later I blew away my sales quota by over 225% and shortly thereafter I was driving on his nickel a brand new BMW 325i and that really set the stage. I could see, the more I worked, the more I built my skills and really developed excellence with my prospects and clients and really helped them to solve their business problems and not focus on me. It would help them and ultimately me become more successful. And there for about eight years.
Speaker 2:And then a friend of mine worked for Apple Computer and he said Doug, you really need to think about technology. So he said, why don't you go get some training? So I would travel Monday through Friday, then on Saturday I enrolled in an introduction to data processing on Saturday mornings for two semesters and got to learn about the evolving technology sector back in 93. And then I quit my job with a company car and most people thought I was nuts to go into an entry level position with a computer resailer called Business Land and really learned the industry for about a year and a half. Then my friend went and was promoted to VP of worldwide sales for a data communication company called Boca Research. He called me and offered me a regional manager position and that's really where I spent the last 15 years before starting the VOREC marketing group and the sales coaching institute.
Speaker 2:And I was just lucky. I had to put in the work effort, take the risk, but back then 1993, it really was the explosion of data communications, online modems, and I was just at the right place at the right time and I got there early and then had a very successful sales career as a sales professional, regional manager, vp of sales, chief revenue officer, and then things were going well. I always knew eventually I wanted to start my own consultancy for motivational speaking training, sales excellence. But then life got in the way. I was diagnosed with cancer and sort of had to put that goal on hold and, as you know, the only way out is through. Recovered from cancer and then started my business and really never looked back. And today sales coaching institute VOREC marketing group is a worldwide training and development organization with offices throughout the world, primarily Western Europe, asia and North American Canada.
Speaker 1:Well, that's amazing. Firstly, I'm glad you overcame cancer. That's a huge thing. And also I love that story of how you came from a line of sales people because I relate to that. My dad is an auctioneer, my uncle and grandfather are in property, so I also come from a long line of sales and that's what I do. I'm very passionate about it. It's great to have that passion embedded in you. It's such an awesome thing, and then you've gone and started a business about it. I think that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they say sales is the highest paying hard work and the lowest paying easy work. And so when you work hard and you build your skills, professional development and help clients solve their business problem and their pain with solution selling, it's just very rewarding, beyond the compensation being very, very good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. I agree with that completely. It's the only job where the more you work, the more you're rewarded, and it's quantifiable, and that's why I really like it, as well as providing solutions to lots of problems. So what motivated you to go and start your own business? And when was that point? Do you recall the point where you're like, hey, I want to start my own business now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was about 2004. And a lot of my friends were entrepreneurs, business people. I saw how hard they work. But I saw the risk-reward ratio and I was just passionate about sales, sales, education, training, motivation and it was really a passion for me. So it was a logical next step when I recovered from cancer and then left corporate America but it was not without its risks going from being provided pension, retirement benefits and a paycheck every week to really make it happen yourself. But it was a tough 18 months. But the only way out is through and I worked very hard and I'm now enjoying the fruits of my labor. But, more importantly, I love what I do. It doesn't seem like work and I think there's a quote that says find what you love to do and do it for the rest of your life, and it doesn't feel like work.
Speaker 1:Exactly 100%, and you said that there were some challenges. Can you talk about some of those challenges and how you overcame them?
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, I had a little bit in sale, in savings, and when I'm asked by people today, hey, should I quit my job and start my own business? I said, well, hold off it. This is a great part, part time job, so don't quit your day job. You still have to have cashflow to pay the bills. But if you are passionate, you do the research and preparation, a business plan, and you have some savings that can give you a bridge for 6, 12, 18 months. I try to be realistic with people that want to get into their own business, specifically into sales, training and consulting. But it's not wrapped without challenges technology, website marketing. I went from a sales professional to now a business owner and I had to wear multiple hats Finance, accounting, billing, customer success, sales marketing and at times it felt overwhelming. But I just put one foot in front of the other, had a strong business plan and just muscled through 100%, and I think sales and entrepreneurship are very similar.
Speaker 1:As in. You have to I can't say it on camera, but you have to have big risk abilities, if you know where I'm going with that, yeah it's for everyone.
Speaker 2:It's not for everyone. Some people want to know how many days off they have, what's their paycheck, what is their bonus, structure benefits. But for me, when I recovered from cancer and I cut the umbilical cord with corporate America, with IBM, it took on a whole different meaning because I had to be successful.
Speaker 1:Failure was not an option 100%, and you've been in this for quite a long time, and sorry if I sound really young with this following question, but when you first started, was it like door to door or did you start on calling sales, and how have you adapted to the changes in the last couple of years?
Speaker 2:Well, I have the great benefit of coming out of technology and when I started my business just call me lucky I got exposed to digital marketing a great website content, tpc and SEO.
Speaker 2:So I've been doing digital marketing for my businesses for about 18 years and I think you have to be good. You've got to really have a great consultancy and methodology and the ability to help clients scale their business and scale professionally through sales coaching. But I think, as more and more technology is evolving, every business, beyond what their core business strength is, has to be aware of technology, sales enablement and now AI. So I think for me, having that well grounded education in digital marketing and investing in it, and now seeing the fruits of my labor, I can sit in any one of my offices around the world and have that marketing engine and essentially a sales force that I only have to feed once. There's no benefits, I don't really have to manage them, but they're out there selling 724365 for me. So the point is understand digital, understand search engine optimization, pay per click, website marketing, content, email marketing, etc.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and you say you mentioned AI, and how has that affected, firstly, your business and the people that you coach. How has that affected the sales, because I know we use it on a daily basis and it makes everything probably like a thousand percent faster. How has it affected you and your business?
Speaker 2:So let me answer that with a little historical context. I was in IT and I was employed with one of the first browsers out of Austin, texas, back in 95. I was at the intersection of data communications when we went online to dial up modems to cable modems to broadband, and then I've seen these critical inflection points in technology and I believe right now AI is one of those additional key inflection points. So we do a lot of content marketing and I have to have a staff of content writers. I have four, now I've got two, and their ability through chat, gbt and some other tools that help with the developing content is unbelievable. The quality, the cost savings and the amount of content that we can really develop on a weekly, monthly basis.
Speaker 1:That gives us a competitive advantage 100% and yeah, I agree with that. We use them as tools to just make our lives a lot easier and it's definitely working how it should be. I wanted to also ask you it was working in a?
Speaker 2:big way. Let me just share a brief story. I was on the phone with the sales executive and he said help me understand this chat GBT. So I launched my chat GBT and I typed in buyer persona for insurance companies and it came up with what a buyer persona is. I said who is the investor relations VP at this company? And the amount of great data. And you know? Another iteration of AI is are you familiar with Tom Tome? No, I'm not. Tom is a tool AI based that is free.
Speaker 2:You can buy some credits, but it allows you to use AI to create a good product. You can use AI to create customized PowerPoint presentations. So you bring up the app, Tom, you type in, give me seven slides on selling to an insurance executive and include their buyer persona. It's just unbelievable.
Speaker 1:That's wild. I'm going to check that out. What did you say? It's T-O-A-M-E.
Speaker 2:Tom, and another one is Dali, based on Salvador Dali D-A-L-L type in Eek, where you can go in now and get unbelievable graphics and logo designs. It's just, it's quickly changing the employment landscape, not only in sales, and I tell sales organizations, if you have an embraced digital and AI, you're better, because if you don't, you're going to be a dinosaur and you're not going to be in business. And all the sales enablement technologies that are out there that cost pennies, that can really scale sales organization and a business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. I agree on that so much. I wanted to also ask you how do you measure the success of your business? What metrics or KPIs do you have in place that you use?
Speaker 2:So the tip of the spear is, or foundationally is, our digital marketing platform and tools that help us to market worldwide. So, without getting into a diet tribe about digital marketing, it's how many leads come in and then how many leads convert to a conversation, that convert to a live meeting or a Zoom or Teams that lead to a proposal, that lead to a sale. So we invest heavily in digital marketing and we get about 60 to 100 leads every month and I have a staff of 10 around the world that work these leads. And then I believe speed to lead forestry research just came out with a white paper that the sales professional and organization that gets to the lead first and understands and paints and articulates the buying vision and solution can enjoy up to a 65% competitive advantage. So selling is a game of inches. So we look at holistically our digital marketing platform. Is it generating the requisite number of leads that come in organically, that convert to a conversation, a meeting, a proposal and a sale?
Speaker 1:100%, 100%. I better get on my leads a lot faster then. So where do you see your industry heading, cause we obviously had a pivotal point in terms of technological evolution. So where do you see the sales world heading in the next couple of years? Because I know a lot of people in my position are worried, like as SDRs. We people think that SDRs aren't gonna be a thing anymore because we'll be able to have thoughts that do our job. Well, what's your opinion on that?
Speaker 2:I think the next one to three years SDRs, sales professionals, will be fine if they understand technology, can navigate Zoom teams, video conferencing well, understand their technology and how it can impact a client's business and you can quantify it. But I think, really understanding those evolving sales enablement tools that allows you to upskill every month, every quarter, every year. If you do that you'll have job security for the next decade. People like to buy from people. Sure, there'll be elements of the sales process. The other thing I know that's here to stay is remote. Now some organizations are gonna say you gotta come back into the office one day a week, three days a week, because the intimacy, the relationships get deep when you're face to face. But I think if you are passionate about selling, you stay abreast of technology, digital technology, sales enablement technology and that your company offers value for dollars spent, a mutual exchange of value for that solution that solves big problems, you're gonna be fine 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm working remotely now. Our company's based in Virginia. I'm in Cape Town. It's definitely changed the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, doug, what have you had? Any partnerships or collaborations that have helped you form and scale your business, or how did you get where you are today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, as I said, I've walked on the shoulders of giants. I was exposed to some consultants and trainers that I hired decades ago that I asked them to be my mentor. I joined the National Speakers Association, the International Federation of Professional Speakers and Trainers, and those two organizations are just awesome in terms of upskilling, seeing the best on the planet deliver virtually live and doing a lot of reading and watching YouTube videos.
Speaker 1:Okay, 100%, and so we are running out of time here, but I just wanted to get some advice from you. So what advice would you give to, firstly, other business owners looking to succeed in your industry, and to salespeople? What advice do you have for us?
Speaker 2:Well, don't quit your day job. Make sure you have a little money in the bank. Have a good business plan that's reasonable, and recognize that it's going to be one to two and a half years before your cash flow positive and make sure that if your spouse or partner works, that it's going to be a tough one. That is two and a half years. But if you have a solution and offering of value, I'd much rather embrace the risks as an entrepreneur or a business owner than be a number with another company, because you never know what decisions are made in the executive suitor at the board. But if you're passionate about what you do, you can add value. You understand and continue to learn the evolving digital landscape. I think it's the greatest ride, both professionally, personally, intellectually, to own your own business 100%.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that Well, doug. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a great conversation. I know we strayed quite far off from our script, but I really enjoyed the conversation. So what is the best way for people to reach out to Doug Devora If you have any offers for them, or if you have any advice for them, or if they just want to follow your story?
Speaker 2:Sure, they can go to salescoachus, and on Sales Coach there's four eBooks to download my two new eBooks on sales leadership a sales leaders guide to success, a sales leaders playbook, how to create a culture of success and there's over 32 micro white papers or eBooks on every aspect of the sales process. They can download those for free. They can also reach me at 1-847-359-6969 or they can email me at Doug at DougDeVoreccom. That's D-O-U-G at D-O-U-G-D. David V, victor, o-r-a-kcom Amazing.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Doug. It was great having you on the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you.