Elevating Your Sales Calls and Leadership with David Pearson: A Go-To Guide for Value Creation

Unlock the secrets to elevating your sales calls and leading your team to new heights with David Pearson, the visionary CEO of Level 5 Selling. As I, Dylan Burke, converse with this trailblazing leader, you'll be privy to an insider's roadmap for transforming from a knowledgeable sales practitioner to an indispensable value creator in your client's eyes. David's wealth of experience shines a light on the nuanced art of incremental improvement and the power of personalized coaching, providing actionable strategies that promise to revolutionize your approach regardless of whether you're nurturing a fledgling sales team or steering a colossal sales force.

Prepare to challenge the status quo of sales leadership as we dissect the five stratified levels of sales calls, unveiling the stark difference between simply visiting professionally and creating profound value. We're not just discussing theories; we're diving into the practical application of 49 microlearning modules specifically designed to catapult your skills to the pinnacle of sales performance. As the landscape of sales morphs, with buyers increasingly informed and discerning, this conversation with David equips you with the foresight and tools to not just meet but exceed the evolving demands of sales excellence. And for those eager to continue the learning journey, reach out for a complimentary sales book that will further amplify your expertise.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Hey everyone, welcome back to the growing Lean podcast sponsored by Lean Discovery Group, an award-winning software and app development firm based out of Virginia. This is your host, dylan Burke, also known as Deech, and I'm happy to be here today with David Pearson, ceo at Level 5 Selling. Welcome, david. Thanks, dylan, great to be with you. Yeah, I'm excited to learn more about your business. On that note, can you start us off by telling us a little bit about yourself, your history and how you ended up doing what you do today?

Speaker 2: 0:36

Yeah, sounds good, dylan. Hey, when I got out of college, I went into the sales training and consulting business and I spent 11 years there, going from selling all the way up to leading the entire sales force. The company I was with is a very well-known global brand and I think that intellectual property is game-changing it's some of the best out there. But I found that a lot of the clients didn't get the results they expected because they treated it like a sales training event Check the box, come in, run it and they go back there always pretty quickly. When I left there, I went on to a sales force. I went on to lead a sales force and ended up taking over sales for a publicly traded company with about 1,000 salespeople and about $3 billion in sales Guys.

Speaker 2: 1:21

Pretty quickly, the frontline sales leadership was the absolute key to success. I got this passion around that particular topic and I connected up with a friend of mine, john Hoskins. I've known him for many years and he had written some books on this topic. He said, david, we're growing this business fast right now. Why don't you come over and be a partner with me and let's build this up to the next level? That's how I got into what we're doing now, today, and really focusing on how we make sales leaders just masterful coaches who can develop and lift the rest of the sales organization.

Speaker 1: 1:53

That's amazing. Is that specific to any industry?

Speaker 2: 1:59

It's not. Actually. We focus on B2B type industries, so we're not so much on the B2C world, but actually our client base ranges from you name it biotech, pharma, manufacturing, insurance, everything that spans across the board, just where they're sales leaders, and it tends to be in a more complex selling environment in a business to business spot.

Speaker 1: 2:23

Okay, okay, that's awesome. Yeah, I've been in sales for the past six, seven years started in real estate, then went to finance, now most recently in tech, and yeah, it's a super interesting space to be in sales in general, Definitely I'm a sales leader. Yeah, exactly. Can you walk us through your overall strategy for your business?

Speaker 2: 2:47

Yeah, well it's we're all about developing front line sales leaders to be masterful coaches and we give them the tools to be successful at developing salespeople in the normal course of business. And that's the key to what we do. You know, we've just found that the front line sales leaders absolutely the key to driving success and impact and if they can do the right types of coaching of salespeople, you can elevate the conversations that are occurring and change the results that people are seeing dramatically. And so our business is really helping helping companies and chief sales officers execute their sales strategy through getting their sales leaders doing the right types of things to build the business.

Speaker 1: 3:30

Okay, okay, and your clients are they. Are they all like enterprise clients, or how many employees do they typically typically have?

Speaker 2: 3:40

Yeah, it's a good question. It ranges in size pretty dramatically. We have customers that have well over 1000 salespeople and in fact our number one customers is is is closer to 3000 salespeople, but the you know we have customers as small as 15 to 20 salespeople to, so it's a pretty wide range in there. I'd say most of the customers we have, if you take that just the bulk, are probably between 50 and 100 salespeople somewhere in that range.

Speaker 1: 4:08

Okay, okay, awesome. And have you adapted to changes in the industry? I know if I correct me. If I'm wrong, you started during 2020, right, and I was like bang in the middle of the pandemic. How did you, firstly, how come that came about, starting in the middle of the pandemic? Was it was that part of your reason for starting the business, or was just coincidental?

Speaker 2: 4:35

Well, no, no, actually we started the business pre pandemic and we had a change dramatically because suddenly you're not getting in person with people and we're able to deliver, deliver a lot virtually so that that part did change. You know, I think the big changes that are happening in the the industry is that. You know, I think there's been a trend for many years that people go to you, get hired in a company. You go to sales training. They use a certain sales training. They send you in. You go check the box. You know we put Dylan through training and you know you go back to your old ways pretty quickly.

Speaker 2: 5:10

And the reality is that that's just not how we learn. You know we learn in small, bite sized chunks and I give the example a lot. I'll say you know, if you were to take me to a golf course and put me in front of golf pro, the golf pro can give me 10 things to work on. I'm not going to do a M Well, I'm going to. I won't you give me too much. Give me one or two things to work on. I can work on over and over and over again. I can practice it and as I get better at it, you can then add.

Speaker 2: 5:37

The pro can add more on. Same thing with how we learn. You've got to learn a little in little, bite sized chunks, and so when you coach properly, you can say, hey, this is where David needs the most help and you can focus directly in on that and give me something short and simple that I can work on and improve. When I improve, that you can add on. That's what. That's some of the I think some of the trend changes that we're seeing is just how people are learning and how we need. We need bite sized, quick things that we can get.

Speaker 1: 6:05

Okay, okay. And how do you track the progress of your clients team, or is that up to them?

Speaker 2: 6:15

Yeah, yeah, we track the progress really closely because we have two things that we do. We create level five sales leaders and that's where the level five comes in, and we find there are five different types of leaders out there and when they get to that top level, which is a true performance partner, they're spending 80% of the time asking questions and listening and guiding the salesperson and 20% of their time telling. That's a big thing. That happens when they become that performance partner. So we want to create that type of a sales leader and then they will. Then when they become the right type of you know they're leading and coaching properly.

Speaker 2: 6:55

We want to create level five sales conversations and we found there are five different types of sales conversations that happen and I can certainly walk through those five. But what happens is those that are in level four and five we found sell usually in most of our customers they sell two X more than those who are selling a level one, two and three regularly, and so you think about that and usually it's about 30% of the salespeople are in level four and five versus one, two and three. Now what happens is we find that we can move through coaching 40% of those people in level one, two and three over the level four and five and when you do that you've got now you think about the impact of that of 40% of your people being able to get over to level four and five, where they can do two X more in sales. It's a big number yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:44

And we track that every quarter, based on how people are moving up those levels.

Speaker 1: 7:47

Okay, amazing, that's awesome. And do you have any specific tactics or tools that have been effective in growing your business?

Speaker 2: 7:58

Well, when you talk about growing the business, I share with you a little bit about that level five selling model, and I'll share it really quickly because it won't take very long and I think your listeners may appreciate it. We found there's five types of sales calls that occur out there sales conversations and this is through Equipmenter Research and now a lot of work with many customers. But a level one sales call is a professional visitor, and this is where they believe that you believe that friends buy from friends. It's all about the relationship and you know more about the person's kids and you about their boss. The fact is is that we need to develop relationships, but if that's all we do, we're not going to be successful.

Speaker 2: 8:37

Get to a level two, you're a price seller. It's all about the price. Say what are you paying, I can get you a better price. Your product becomes a price list. Sometimes the sales person is trying to have a good conversation, they're trying to have value, but they customer drags them at a price and they don't know to get back to a value discussion. That's a level two call. Level three is a technical teller. Hey, let me tell you why we're unique, why we're different, why we're the best. Let me get my PowerPoint presentation out. Let me tell you all about it. It's that spray and pray type of a sales approach and that's a level three.

Speaker 2: 9:08

Dylan, we found in our research that about 60% of sales calls are scrapping waste. They just don't move the buying process forward, which is significant. I mean, it just blows me away. But most of those happen at level one, two and three. When you get to level four, it's first of all professional selling, where the sales person is asking good questions or understanding what's important to the customer. They're like back a solution. They're gaining commitment.

Speaker 2: 9:30

They're differentiating all the things you'd want of a sales person, but they're they're finding a fit for their solution. When you get to level five, it's a value creator. And that value creator is where you are now understanding your customer's customer. You're understanding their business in a much broader perspective and how you can help them, you're helping shape their thinking, you're bringing insights to the table. And so those are the five levels and, as I mentioned before, those in four and five typically sell two X more than those in one, two and three. So our goal is is you can identify where people predominantly sell and help move them over through coaching. And then we have tools that we 49 micro learning modules that we can use to help get them there, because there's there's really 40 plus skills you need to master to be a level five sales person. So those are some of the tools that we that we use that are very successful in helping our customers grow their businesses, and if we can do that, that grows our business.

Speaker 1: 10:23

Okay, amazing, amazing. And these 49 modules is that? How do they do that? Is it just like PDFs or videos, or is it for one courses?

Speaker 2: 10:37

No, their videos are eight to 10 minutes in length and we have a technology platform where they go in and they view those videos eight to 10 minutes in length. They have because that's really what our attention span is these days right, and then when you get done, you have an exercise. So if it's something simple like opening a call, I'll watch a video. And opening a call, I've got a tool that I pull down and then I actually practice opening a call, I can record a video for my manager Manager can watch it and provide feedback on it. It makes it really easy to provide coaching remotely on a very specific skill that somebody might need. And those video span across all kinds of different areas, from account you know, call planning and execution, to account strategy, negotiation, business acumen. But they're the key skills required to be a level four or five salesperson.

Speaker 1: 11:25

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And in terms of your business and getting to where you are today, what have been the biggest challenges that you faced?

Speaker 2: 11:36

The biggest challenges on getting where we are today. I would say that it's kind of interesting. Risk is one that is, I would say, is one of the challenges we had overcome. And you know, I think that sometimes when we're out selling and talking to people, we fail to address the risk. And I think we did that in the beginning in this business. And I'll tell you what happened is I used to work for a really well-branded, known company and it's like when you go in and talk to them about that company, people know it.

Speaker 2: 12:04

They'd say oh yeah, everybody uses that company. It's, the risk is a lot less. When we were getting our business going, a lot of people had not heard of level five selling and level five coaching system and so it's a risk, and so we actually really thought about how we can remove that risk and now we have a way that people can we guarantee the results. If they don't see results in 90 days, they don't pay and they don't continue paying. So it's, you know, it's kind of a SAS type model, that kind of more of a you know learning as a service and if they don't have to continue on. But we know that people get results quickly and I think addressing that risk was a big key for us.

Speaker 1: 12:46

And I think that's for probably a lot of people's businesses.

Speaker 2: 12:49

We have to. You have to really address the risk component and take the risk out of it for people to make the decision easier 100%, and what stage of growth are you on in terms of your business?

Speaker 2: 13:05

Well, we're in a pretty rapid growth phase right now because we've got a pretty nice client base now and so as we start working with these you know we work with these clients they see results and that just drives more business and more opportunity for us. So we're in a pretty we've got a very strong product and solution. You know, I think the intellectual property is all there and it's more a matter of getting it out into more people's hands, and that's what we're doing now.

Speaker 1: 13:36

Okay, 100%. And in terms of your satisfaction with your business operations and the level you're at, what would you rate that out of 10 if today?

Speaker 2: 13:49

Oh, I'd say probably maybe an eight, seven or eight, somewhere in that range. There's always more room to go. You know, we're constantly looking at getting better and getting more efficient and how can we make it easier for our customers, and I just want to stay focused on that. How do we? You know, I think I'm at a point in my life, dylan, where I've done a lot of really cool things in my career and I really want to make a big impact, and so whatever we can do to make it easier and create even bigger impact, we're always looking to do that.

Speaker 2: 14:20

So more to go it's a never ending game.

Speaker 1: 14:24

Yeah, 100%. And then if we were to sit down again in the 12 months time and everything that has gone, everything that could go right, has gone right in your business, what would the business look like and what would you rate it out of 10?

Speaker 2: 14:41

Well, it's a good question. If we were forward, we'd have customers that are using our service on a regular basis. They're continuing to see value in it year after year. They're renewing agreements with us because they see the value and you know it's building a subscriber base and having a really strong subscriber base that is telling others about it and referring. I think that you know my goal would be to be that kind of a household name in the world of sales and sales leadership in the next few years. So you know, doing that that would probably put me up there higher on the number of one to 10. Although I don't want to go too much higher because you can't ever be satisfied. If I get satisfied, we're not continuing to grow and get better 100%, 100%.

Speaker 1: 15:32

And where do you see this industry heading? I'm talking about sales in general. Do you think it's gonna get harder or easier?

Speaker 2: 15:43

Because it's constantly.

Speaker 1: 15:45

Yeah, I've noticed it's just getting harder and harder because there's just so much saturation. So do you think it's gonna continue getting harder or yeah for sure.

Speaker 2: 15:55

Sales is always gonna get more and more complex. You know, you think about it. Years ago, salesperson, go out and tell people about what they're selling, what they're doing, and you know your education was a bigger part of the job. Today, think about when you buy something. You go online, you research. You've done all, you've done all your homework before you ever even talked to somebody. You know exactly what's out there. You know where they are, what they do and so how does that person add value?

Speaker 2: 16:19

And you know that becomes so critically important on how they can really understand and link it back and add the right type of value. And that's a skill I think we have to. We've gotta move that needle across the industry because it's gonna get harder, it's gonna get more complex, it's gonna get harder to get in front of people, so it'll continue to get more challenging.

Speaker 1: 16:44

Yeah, 100%. I read a post on LinkedIn the other day. It was a simple quote. It said sellers aren't selling anymore. Buyers are buy, which basically means that if someone's going to buy something, they are going to do the research. They're going to look up the competition, they're gonna look up the different prices and the differentiation comes in some of the time the salesperson and how they present the offer. Because if you're gonna buy a software, you're gonna do your research right. You're not gonna just take the word of some guy calling you. You're gonna do your research right.

Speaker 2: 17:21

You're right. Well, I think what you said is important, as long as salespeople realize that it's not about being passive and thinking well, they're just gonna buy. You know you have to go out and find people that match your ideal customer profile and look and reach out to the right level in that company and offer value. You know, I think, that you have to come from a point of service. How can I give, how can I add value? And you find the people that have that need and share with them freely, and they're gonna need your help and when they do, they're gonna come to you.

Speaker 1: 17:54

Yeah, 100%. And have you had any partnerships or collaborations that have been effective in getting to where you are today?

Speaker 2: 18:07

Definitely, in fact, the content on our micro learning modules. We partnered with a gentleman by the name of Dick Roof and he was back in the day. I don't know if you've heard of Spin selling back in the day Neil Rackham but a lot of research and good work was done in developing a system. Well, dick Roof was Neil's partner. He, you know, co-wrote one of his books and it was doing a lot of research with him as well. He helped us develop a lot of our micro learning modules. Our content is really strong and solid. We also have another content partner that helped us with our business acumen content and he was the creator. He's a partner of ours and the creator of the content and he's also a bestselling author of a book called Profit Heroes. So what it does is make sure that the micro learning module content we have is just, you know, top of the line.

Speaker 1: 18:58

That we're back at yeah, 100%. And is this available to the average salesperson, or is it only to your corporate clients?

Speaker 2: 19:09

So like you're talking about an individual that might want to connect with you.

Speaker 1: 19:14

Like me. For example, if I wanted to go and improve my sales skills, is there a way for me to purchase your course and go through it?

Speaker 2: 19:24

Yeah, so typically we're. We are going through companies. You know it's the issue of the company because we're working with the leadership in there. However, I do have a copy of our book. That's, in fact, your listeners who've made it this far. If they want to copy the book, they can drop me an email. I'll give you my email address is David at level five, sellingcom. I'll spell that L E V E L F I V E dot com. Drop me an email and say you listen to this podcast. I'd like to copy the book. I'll send one out to you.

Speaker 1: 19:52

Amazing, that's awesome, and I think I want one as well.

Speaker 2: 19:55

Please, I'll send you one, dylan.

Speaker 1: 19:58

Awesome, thank you. So we have come to the end of the podcast, but before we go, if you could give one piece of advice, firstly to business owners looking to succeed and secondly to salespeople looking to succeed, what would that advice be?

Speaker 2: 20:14

You know I would probably give the same advice on both of them and I mentioned a little bit earlier focus on serving. You know I think you mentioned earlier. You know it's not about selling people. You know people help people buy. You know it's really focused on serving. Give give freely, give your content freely, help people to be better and you know many will want to scale up and they'll want to use your concepts within the organization. They'll want to help in execution and they'll reach out to you. But help you know and give information freely. I found that to be an effective way of getting a business going and started.

Speaker 1: 20:52

Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you so much and thank you for your time today, David. So what is the best way for people to reach out to David Pearson? I know you mentioned your email, but do you want to say it again and if there are any other ways, you can mention them now.

Speaker 2: 21:09

Yeah, I appreciate, dylan, I mentioned so our website is levelfivesellingcom, all spelled out, and you can. You can find out about our business and also, like I said, drop me an email if you would like to see the copy of the book. I'll be happy to drop one. Send one out to you, david, at levelfivesellingcom.

Speaker 1: 21:30

Amazing. Thank you so much again.

Speaker 2: 21:32

Appreciate it. Dylan, have a good day.

Speaker 1: 21:34

You too.